Linux 2007 - I kinda like it (fo' real dis time) Date: 2007-11-20 01:35:08
So, my PC died. Being totally broke, I ran around for days like a headless chicken, before some kind soul gave me their old (3.5 GHz Intel with 2 GB RAM is what passes for old now, sigh) moterboard and parts. Since I couldn't really find my Windows XP CD (and it was a OEM version anyway) I decided to go ahead and give SuSE 10.3 a try!
As expected, it was a real nightmare to get the triple screen setup working. There is no way a normal user could have done this. Luckily, both graphics cards are Nvidias and, unlike ATI cards usually do, they don't hate each other. So when I installed the Nvidia linux driver, it promptly compiled itself from the raw package and the first two screens started to work. Of course, one of them was only displaying garbage, but it's a start. See, you can trick the Nvidia driver tools into activating your second adapter (I guess by accident). Then all you got to do is edit the xorg.conf file to rearrange the monitor layout and make sure Xinerama is actually on. None of these two things can be done with any existing Linux/GNU/Xorg/Whatever tool, though.
After that was done (and with 3D support to boot!) the only other problem was getting strange and exotic codecs like MP3 to work. But unlike the graphics disaster, I can sort of understand why they're not part of the actual distro. No problem though, there are repositories like Packman. You can just add these to your standard software repositories and all the good stuff becomes available through Yast.
Be careful about the software update feature. If it updates the kernel, stuff WILL stop working. Just upgrading from one build number to the next (I'm not even talking about major or minor version number) regularly breaks binary compatibility with drivers. Those drivers then have to be recompiled and the sad part is: Yast doesn't know about this. It just prompts you to restart and the next thing you know is that your display driver just stops working. Not good.
In SuSE 10.3 they made it real easy to activate Xgl/Compiz, the hardware-accelerated desktop compositing solution. I just love that stuff. It has no usability value or any other kind of value for that matter but I really like it. Of course, there is a price for using it. Be prepared for huge memory requirments (Xgl alone sits at 300 to 400 MB RAM constantly) and high CPU usage (from 20% idle to 100% every time window's content updates even slightly).
There is one especially bad bug that's been around since 10.1. When CPU load is high, a single keystroke can be reported as dozens of keystrokes by the kernel. It's especially bad for Google Reader. You press "j" for the next item, CPU usage goes up, watch the next 20 entries zip past! The same happens when I try to scroll long pages or even in the text editor when there are other high-CPU processes. That really sucks. But since they didn't fix it yet that can only mean it's probably not that important. And come on, I observed the same problem on all kinds of different hardware for years, it's not just my imagination!
Anyway, the verdict: SuSE 10.3 - it's borderline usable!
PS: VirtualBox totally rocks! It's like Parallels only for Non-Macs and it's free!
Edit: at least I won't get any "an unauthorized change was made to Windows" messages, heh.
As expected, it was a real nightmare to get the triple screen setup working. There is no way a normal user could have done this. Luckily, both graphics cards are Nvidias and, unlike ATI cards usually do, they don't hate each other. So when I installed the Nvidia linux driver, it promptly compiled itself from the raw package and the first two screens started to work. Of course, one of them was only displaying garbage, but it's a start. See, you can trick the Nvidia driver tools into activating your second adapter (I guess by accident). Then all you got to do is edit the xorg.conf file to rearrange the monitor layout and make sure Xinerama is actually on. None of these two things can be done with any existing Linux/GNU/Xorg/Whatever tool, though.
After that was done (and with 3D support to boot!) the only other problem was getting strange and exotic codecs like MP3 to work. But unlike the graphics disaster, I can sort of understand why they're not part of the actual distro. No problem though, there are repositories like Packman. You can just add these to your standard software repositories and all the good stuff becomes available through Yast.
Be careful about the software update feature. If it updates the kernel, stuff WILL stop working. Just upgrading from one build number to the next (I'm not even talking about major or minor version number) regularly breaks binary compatibility with drivers. Those drivers then have to be recompiled and the sad part is: Yast doesn't know about this. It just prompts you to restart and the next thing you know is that your display driver just stops working. Not good.
In SuSE 10.3 they made it real easy to activate Xgl/Compiz, the hardware-accelerated desktop compositing solution. I just love that stuff. It has no usability value or any other kind of value for that matter but I really like it. Of course, there is a price for using it. Be prepared for huge memory requirments (Xgl alone sits at 300 to 400 MB RAM constantly) and high CPU usage (from 20% idle to 100% every time window's content updates even slightly).
There is one especially bad bug that's been around since 10.1. When CPU load is high, a single keystroke can be reported as dozens of keystrokes by the kernel. It's especially bad for Google Reader. You press "j" for the next item, CPU usage goes up, watch the next 20 entries zip past! The same happens when I try to scroll long pages or even in the text editor when there are other high-CPU processes. That really sucks. But since they didn't fix it yet that can only mean it's probably not that important. And come on, I observed the same problem on all kinds of different hardware for years, it's not just my imagination!
Anyway, the verdict: SuSE 10.3 - it's borderline usable!
PS: VirtualBox totally rocks! It's like Parallels only for Non-Macs and it's free!
Edit: at least I won't get any "an unauthorized change was made to Windows" messages, heh.
Comments
Udo says
(2007-11-28 00:22:10)
1.) you know why: it's pretty :-)
Uh, actually, there is a simple web-launchable tool that turns compiz/whatever on for SuSE 10.3, and it's official to boot. I really don't know how that counts as major brutality..?
2.) I know, I'm probably the only one. But it's been happening at least since SuSE 10.1, on different PCs, different software installed. It even happened in VirtualPC under Windows. But yeah, I'm not kidding, it's probably my aura :-P I have the strong feeling this is some kind of interrupt timing problem. Since it only happens when CPU load goes through the roof, my assumption is that the handler registers the key _release_ way to late so the driver thinks the key must have been pressed for several seconds. When in fact it was released again right away, only the event never made it through the heavy traffic. So, logically, the keyboard driver spits out what it deems to be the appropriate number of keystroke repeats for the interval...
Uh, actually, there is a simple web-launchable tool that turns compiz/whatever on for SuSE 10.3, and it's official to boot. I really don't know how that counts as major brutality..?
2.) I know, I'm probably the only one. But it's been happening at least since SuSE 10.1, on different PCs, different software installed. It even happened in VirtualPC under Windows. But yeah, I'm not kidding, it's probably my aura :-P I have the strong feeling this is some kind of interrupt timing problem. Since it only happens when CPU load goes through the roof, my assumption is that the handler registers the key _release_ way to late so the driver thinks the key must have been pressed for several seconds. When in fact it was released again right away, only the event never made it through the heavy traffic. So, logically, the keyboard driver spits out what it deems to be the appropriate number of keystroke repeats for the interval...
EMSPV says
(2007-11-28 01:48:39)
1) Huh, sorry, I should have stated this clearer. Xgl isn't the way to go, you want AIGLX. Xgl was dropped in favor of AIGLX because it was a separate implementation (it even needed its own X-server), and people needed to puke whenever they tried to really use it. (Of course, I'm kidding here, but Xgl was never meant to be more than just a "hey, look what we've got" hack to the X server.) So this is why I spoke about brutality. :-)
By the way, the fragile nature of Xgl never prevented ATI from using it extensively, while nvidia & Co never really supported Xgl, but went right into supporting AIGLX, clearly realizing this as the right way to go. Sometimes, I hate ATI. Hopefully, AMD will make it better. They promised!
2) Hm, it would be nice to have a dmesg when this happens. Actually, I face a similar problem with my wlan card's driver. Whenever I transfer alot or the system load is high, the touchpad will just hang (actually, the pointer controlled by the touch pad), and the input driver looses its connection to the device. After its automatic reconnect, everything works again, but I end up staring at the mouse pointer's coffee break every now and then.
Luckily, I know where the problem comes from and the driver guys try to fix it.
By the way, the fragile nature of Xgl never prevented ATI from using it extensively, while nvidia & Co never really supported Xgl, but went right into supporting AIGLX, clearly realizing this as the right way to go. Sometimes, I hate ATI. Hopefully, AMD will make it better. They promised!
2) Hm, it would be nice to have a dmesg when this happens. Actually, I face a similar problem with my wlan card's driver. Whenever I transfer alot or the system load is high, the touchpad will just hang (actually, the pointer controlled by the touch pad), and the input driver looses its connection to the device. After its automatic reconnect, everything works again, but I end up staring at the mouse pointer's coffee break every now and then.
Luckily, I know where the problem comes from and the driver guys try to fix it.
Udo says
(2007-11-28 02:05:51)
Xgl isn’t the way to go, you want AIGLX.
Maybe so, but we were implicitly talking about what came standard with the distro, right? And yes, SuSE has a manual install guide on their site for AIGLX...
But what got me thinking was: there is some reference on the SuSE website indicating that the necessary hardware acceleration functions should be built right into the Xorg version they use. So, technically neither Xgl not AIGLX should be required. Maybe someone just forgot to deactivate the Xgl code path? I'll try and find it out as soon as I can motivate myself ;-)
@2: I don't know but if the same problem might be happening with your touchpad, might that not indicate some problem at the kernel level? I have no idea... In my case there is nothing in the logs, dmesg is nominal. The system doesn't think anything extraordinary happened :-(
Maybe so, but we were implicitly talking about what came standard with the distro, right? And yes, SuSE has a manual install guide on their site for AIGLX...
But what got me thinking was: there is some reference on the SuSE website indicating that the necessary hardware acceleration functions should be built right into the Xorg version they use. So, technically neither Xgl not AIGLX should be required. Maybe someone just forgot to deactivate the Xgl code path? I'll try and find it out as soon as I can motivate myself ;-)
@2: I don't know but if the same problem might be happening with your touchpad, might that not indicate some problem at the kernel level? I have no idea... In my case there is nothing in the logs, dmesg is nominal. The system doesn't think anything extraordinary happened :-(
Udo says
(2007-11-28 02:09:44)
Oh, and by the way: I now now what you meant with VirtualBox' network emulator disaster. Wow, does it suck! Is there any way you can communicate with the host OS over TCP at all? From where I'm standing it looks completely encapsulated. Sure, VirtualBox is making sure the hosted OS can access the internet, but it's not really letting any local area traffic out, is it? Though it looks like hosted OSes can probably talk with each other... maybe.
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1. Why do you use Xgl anyways? Its old, unmaintained and broken anyways, and I cannot imagine that SuSE offered this as a default without major brutality from your side. ;-)
2. I've never ever seen this key repetition problem happen. And I guess alot of people haven't seen it, too. It would be good to know where this comes from... Hm. :-)